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16:50:36 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
16:50:36 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
16:50:36 <ivan> Chair: luc
16:50:36 <ivan> Date: 2019-12-17
16:50:36 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Dec/0006.html
16:50:36 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-12-17: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Dec/0006.html
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17:00:38 <laudrain> present+
17:01:22 <ivan> present+
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17:01:33 <liisamk> present+
17:01:50 <dauwhe> cough+
17:02:11 <Daihei> present+
17:02:16 <dauwhe> present+
17:02:22 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbg
17:02:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
17:02:48 <jeff> present+
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17:05:09 <laudrain> chair laudrain
17:05:16 <ivan> chair: laudrain
17:05:37 <liisamk> scribe+: liisamk
17:06:00 <ivan> scribe+ liisamk
17:06:05 <liisamk> Topic: EPUBcheck fundraising
17:06:28 <liisamk> Luc: haven't raised enough, have received 3 pledges
17:06:41 <Avneesh> present+
17:06:45 <liisamk> ...from Firebrand and two small suppliers in France
17:06:55 <liisamk> ...personal mails have some success
17:07:17 <Jonathan> Jonathan has joined #pbg
17:07:25 <liisamk> ...have to pay DAISY in end of Feb and hope to reach the amount about $30K
17:07:40 <liisamk> ...need to keep up momentum to raise funds
17:07:51 <liisamk> ...hope people will contribute with new 2020 budgets
17:08:02 <liisamk> ...we all need to keep spreading the word
17:08:06 <garth> garth has joined #pbg
17:08:15 <garth> present+ Garth
17:08:17 <laudrain> q?
17:08:38 <liisamk> Daihei: has reached out to industry organizations in Japan
17:09:11 <liisamk> ...some have put money in already, asking to have members consider amounts for companies
17:09:18 <liisamk> ...no favorable response yet
17:09:30 <liisamk> Luc: no news from Apple yet
17:09:44 <laudrain> q?
17:09:57 <liisamk> Topic: validator.idpf.org website
17:10:15 <liisamk> Luc: site was setup a long time ago, beta version
17:10:31 <liisamk> ...it is really used, nearly 4000 unique IPs per month
17:10:44 <liisamk> ...thousands of EPUBs are checked
17:10:58 <liisamk> ...hosted on the DAISY server and is not reliable, needs maintenance
17:11:05 <liisamk> ...don't know who uses it and why
17:11:41 <liisamk> ...had discussions on the steering committee and think it is a place used for convenience
17:12:04 <liisamk> ...maybe people are not in our main conversation, may be a way to message about the next versions
17:12:17 <liisamk> ...only running 4.1.1 EPUBcheck
17:12:30 <liisamk> ...it is not running 4.2 EPUBcheck
17:12:47 <liisamk> ...DAISY thinks it is not a big effort to update to 4.2.2.
17:12:50 <laudrain> q?
17:12:58 <liisamk> ...do we know who uses it and why?
17:13:08 <liisamk> q+
17:13:15 <garth> q+
17:13:16 <laudrain> ack liisamk
17:13:40 <laudrain> ack garth
17:14:13 <liisamk> liisamk: maybe we can put it in the survey to find out where people validate
17:14:17 <laudrain> q+
17:14:30 <jeff> q+
17:14:57 <liisamk> garth: would like to see it working and think that a disclaimer about unencryption on the site is good
17:15:24 <liisamk> Luc: average 4000 unique IPs per month and 10s of thousands checked
17:15:29 <liisamk> ack laudrain
17:15:49 <liisamk> ...needs to be hosted somewhere
17:15:52 <laudrain> ack jeff
17:16:32 <Avneesh> q+
17:16:34 <liisamk> jeff: related point, is there a way to include them in the survey?
17:16:42 <laudrain> q+
17:16:52 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
17:16:53 <liisamk> ack Avneesh
17:17:11 <liisamk> Avneesh: it is not a server problem, the code needs refactoring
17:17:34 <liisamk> ...cpu cycles are quite high and needs to be refactored and more efficient
17:17:43 <liisamk> q+
17:17:43 <laudrain> q-
17:17:58 <laudrain> ack liisamk
17:19:20 <laudrain> q?
17:19:20 <liisamk> liisamk: maybe add language to point to fundraising and a disclaimer is a good start
17:19:32 <liisamk> Luc: will followup with Romain about that
17:19:39 <laudrain> topic: survey
17:21:40 <Avneesh> q+
17:21:50 <liisamk> liisamk: survey being worked on, draft circulated
17:21:52 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
17:21:58 <dauwhe> q+
17:22:07 <liisamk> Avneesh: needs an objective statement
17:22:29 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
17:22:52 <liisamk> Dave: objective of the survey is to find out what we don't know
17:23:00 <liisamk> ...same group of people working for 20 years
17:23:32 <liisamk> ...we are clear on our problems, but we want to reach outside the group
17:23:43 <liisamk> ...is what we think the same as others
17:23:45 <liisamk> q+
17:24:06 <laudrain> ack liisamk
17:24:19 <laudrain> q+
17:25:05 <Avneesh> q+
17:25:06 <liisamk> ...that is broad because we want to hear out there what people want
17:25:34 <liisamk> liisamk: will try to write an intro statement and think that we have to be mindful that people don't always know what they want
17:25:41 <liisamk> ack laudrain
17:26:25 <liisamk> Luc: we don't know why people don't go to digital and there is a lot to be fueled by the survey and take 2020 as a re-launch for a new era
17:26:27 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
17:26:41 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
17:27:00 <liisamk> Avneesh: good idea to find out what we don't know, need fresh ideas from outside
17:27:05 <liisamk> ...some cautions
17:27:30 <liisamk> ...are they people who only use EPUB and how do we get to people beyond that
17:28:15 <liisamk> ...want broad coverage, but there will be human labor involved to interpret and want to make the survey efficient for analysis
17:28:34 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
17:28:44 <liisamk> Bill_Kasdorf: casting a wide net is fundamental
17:29:11 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
17:29:11 <Zakim> Present: laudrain, ivan, liisamk, Daihei, dauwhe, Bill_Kasdorf, jeff, Avneesh, Garth
17:29:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see garth, Jonathan, Avneesh, Bill_Kasdorf, liisamk, jeff, laudrain, Daihei, RRSAgent, Zakim, dauwhe, Karen, ivan, bigbluehat
17:29:30 <liisamk> ...what kind of issues popup and even one respondent with a point that resonates will be helpful
17:29:33 <ivan> present+ david_stroup
17:29:52 <liisamk> ...ambiguity about EPUB and when does it morph into web publications
17:29:59 <ivan> present+ Jonathan_Greenberg
17:30:25 <laudrain> q?
17:30:33 <liisamk> ...EU might say that people just want information online
17:30:52 <jeff> q+
17:30:52 <liisamk> ...want publications that work online in browsers and don't want to give up on that
17:31:07 <laudrain> ack jeff
17:31:07 <liisamk> ...also valid to want to know what EPUB should provide
17:31:48 <liisamk> Jeff: fan of futuristic everything is online, but this particular survey may need to be firmly grounded in evolution of EPUB
17:32:07 <liisamk> ...worry if we aren't grounded we'll get nowhere
17:32:09 <laudrain> q?
17:32:22 <dauwhe> q+
17:32:32 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
17:33:12 <liisamk> Dave: would appreciate anybody who reads the questions, proposes new questions, and contribute
17:33:24 <liisamk> ...may be comfortable if the scope if ebooks
17:33:29 <liisamk> ...not just EPUB
17:34:03 <liisamk> ...PDFs are still accessibility problems and understand what it would take for people to actually use EPUB
17:34:24 <liisamk> s/if/is
17:34:26 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to focusing. I wasn't advocating broadening the perspective but pointing out that we were verging that way.
17:34:44 <liisamk> Luc: intro to survey should explain this point
17:34:52 <Avneesh> I like Liisa'proposal of writing an introduction, defining theobjective and scope
17:35:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> George is not on the call but he was interested in corporate publications. Are we including those as "ebooks"?
17:35:54 <Daihei> q+
17:36:05 <laudrain> liisamk: launch before end of january
17:36:10 <liisamk> Luc: timing is to launch in January with smaller group and expand in early Feb for some responses
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17:36:29 <liisamk> Daihei: should we add directly to the draft?
17:36:33 <liisamk> ...I will do that
17:36:58 <dauwhe> q+
17:37:08 <ivan> ack Daihei
17:37:16 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
17:37:33 <liisamk> Dave: wary of focusing on corporate publications
17:37:36 <ivan> q+
17:38:07 <liisamk> ...we say it is a good idea, but we don't have people driving the idea from that part of the world
17:38:23 <liisamk> ...we need to interact with them before going far down that road
17:38:25 <laudrain> ack ivan
17:38:42 <liisamk> Ivan: ebook on the one side and the European docs/corp docs on the other
17:38:51 <liisamk> ...completely different business models
17:39:18 <liisamk> ...trying to drag ourselves into a different business model may take us down the wrong path
17:39:27 <laudrain> q?
17:39:32 <liisamk> ...tech and business is important to remember
17:39:33 <liisamk> q+
17:39:42 <laudrain> ack liisamk
17:40:18 <laudrain> liisamk: the tools to make EPUB did not make so effficiently
17:40:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> Channeling George again, he would probably mention the imminent "Save as EPUB" in Word. . . .
17:40:36 <laudrain> … with business doc that is an issue
17:41:15 <laudrain> liisamk: what do they do for navigatin in « Sava as EPUB"
17:41:22 <Jonathan> As more scholarly books are being published open access, they're not being sold either. Here corporate publishing and academic publishing are perhaps moving nearer each other.
17:41:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to Jonathan
17:42:13 <laudrain> q?
17:42:46 <laudrain> topic: EPUB 3.2 adoption
17:43:03 <liisamk> Luc: probably related to EPUBcheck 4.2
17:43:34 <liisamk> ...many people have made EPUBcheck 4.2 running in production and either upstream in publishing houses or at suppliers
17:43:58 <liisamk> ...also has been adopted in distributed/sales channels, Google and Kobo are using
17:44:42 <liisamk> q+
17:44:43 <laudrain> q?
17:44:50 <laudrain> ack liisamk
17:45:44 <liisamk> luc- we can hear you and each other
17:45:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> Luc the problem is on your end we are hearing you and Liisa
17:46:39 <laudrain> liisamk: moving backlist epub to epubcheck 4.2.2
17:47:09 <laudrain> q?
17:47:21 <liisamk> ...has anyone else planned for backlist?
17:47:31 <liisamk> Luc: have planned to work on backlist
17:47:59 <liisamk> ...want to add accessibility features so all EPUB3 from 2016 forward are accessible, but a long list
17:48:03 <Daihei> q+
17:48:09 <laudrain> ack Daihei
17:48:24 <liisamk> Daihei: almost like a launch in Japan from EPUB3
17:48:57 <liisamk> ...lately discussion with some major publishers and they feel strongly they may have to go back to make more accessible
17:49:11 <liisamk> ...concerned about cost and practical questions of where to start
17:49:39 <liisamk> ...EPUB 3.2 for new files and EPUB 3.0.1 files are compatible and looking into accessibility
17:50:07 <liisamk> ...hear from Taiwan that TDPF has been educating local publishers for EPUB 3.2, but not easy
17:50:27 <liisamk> ...no Korea and Chinese on the Asia call and we don't know the status of these markets
17:50:29 <laudrain> q?
17:51:09 <liisamk> Topic: Concerns about Adobe DRM and ACS
17:51:40 <laudrain> liisamk: hearing that a lot of concern that Adobe not focused on their platform
17:51:56 <laudrain> … issues with their code base, ARM Sdk
17:52:18 <laudrain> … some are trying to find a alternative soon
17:52:26 <laudrain> … impact on business?
17:52:32 <laudrain> q+
17:52:39 <liisamk> ack laudrain
17:52:55 <liisamk> Luc: know there is not much work on the adobe mobile RMSDK
17:53:15 <liisamk> ...for android platform it is not possible to publish a valid adobe mobile application
17:53:34 <liisamk> ...it's time to stop working with adobe RMSDK for mobile apps
17:54:00 <liisamk> ...may be time to work with Readium and look at LCP for replacing adobe DRM
17:54:02 <dauwhe> q+
17:54:22 <liisamk> ...Luc hopes that LCP and Readium be considered as alternative
17:54:26 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
17:55:12 <liisamk> Dave: concerned about topic
17:55:55 <liisamk> q+
17:56:06 <laudrain> ack liisamk
17:57:16 <laudrain> liisamk: discussion on that topic
17:57:21 <liisamk> liisamk: want people to consider whether we should invite Adobe back for open discussion
17:57:29 <laudrain> q?
17:58:54 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:58:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/12/17-pbg-minutes.html ivan
17:58:54 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:58:54 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:58:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:58:54 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been laudrain, ivan, liisamk, Daihei, dauwhe, Bill_Kasdorf, jeff, Avneesh, Garth, david_stroup, Jonathan_Greenberg
17:58:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg