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15:30:52 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/04/09-pbg-irc
15:30:53 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:30:53 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
15:30:53 <ivan> Chair: luc
15:30:53 <ivan> Date: 2019-04-09
15:30:53 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Apr/0011.html
15:30:53 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-04-09: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Apr/0011.html
15:30:54 <ivan> Regrets+ tzviya, rachel, karen, jeff, mateus
15:52:37 <ivan> regrets+ daihei, garth
15:54:55 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #pbg
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15:57:06 <laudrain> present+
15:57:18 <ivan> present+
15:59:37 <wendyreid> present+
16:00:53 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:01:05 <dauwhe> present+
16:01:35 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
16:02:20 <liisamk> present+
16:02:26 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbg
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16:03:09 <wendyreid> scribenick: wendyreid
16:03:12 <Dan_Sanicola> present+
16:04:35 <mateus_> mateus_ has joined #pbg
16:04:43 <wendyreid> laudrain: Any new members?
16:05:08 <mateus_> mateus_ has left #pbg
16:05:16 <mateus_> mateus_ has joined #pbg
16:05:36 <wendyreid> ... We are still updating the event calendar
16:05:39 <George> George has joined #pbg
16:05:44 <wendyreid> Topic: Event Calendar
16:05:49 <George> present+ George
16:05:56 <wendyreid> laudrain: If you have any information about events please send them to us
16:06:07 <Avneesh> present+
16:06:10 <wendyreid> ... the big upcoming event is the Digital Publishing Summit in Paris in June
16:06:16 <wendyreid> ... special discount for W3C members
16:06:21 <laudrain> q?
16:06:34 <wendyreid> Topic: EPUBCheck 4.2 Release Candidate
16:06:46 <wendyreid> laudrain: No major issues have been reported, we still encourage testing and feedback
16:07:12 <wendyreid> ... I have contacted Apple, and they are considering, they are wondering how many EPUB 3.2 files they hav
16:07:17 <wendyreid> ... I hope they are testing
16:07:26 <wolfgang> s/hav/have/
16:07:27 <leslie> leslie has joined #PBG
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16:07:36 <wendyreid> ... Kobo has been doing some testing
16:08:01 <dauwhe> q+
16:08:13 <wolfgang> wendyreid: test have gone very well, except 1 issue we raised - haven't seen any other issues
16:08:21 <laudrain> ack Dave
16:08:32 <wendyreid> dauwhe: What was the issue? The mimetype issue
16:08:39 <wendyreid> wendyreid: Yes
16:08:56 <wendyreid> laudrain: The previous version did not check the same way
16:09:05 <wendyreid> dauwhe: We did not look for trailing spaces
16:09:06 <wolfgang> s/test have gone/tests have gone/
16:09:24 <wendyreid> ... an issue has come up about how EPUBCheck checks the spine and nav order
16:09:33 <wendyreid> ... it is affecting books in Japan, and likely some here
16:09:39 <wendyreid> liisamk: Probably some of ours
16:09:47 <wendyreid> dauwhe: We will discuss this in the community group
16:09:53 <liisamk> q+
16:09:55 <wendyreid> ... it's important to test our own files against the RC
16:10:02 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
16:10:05 <wendyreid> laudrain: Nothing is blocking so far
16:10:18 <wendyreid> ... we have a plan we will discuss about release and adoption
16:10:23 <laudrain> q?
16:10:47 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:11:13 <wendyreid> liisamk: We've tested about 18k internally, and found a number of issues, mainly for us to fix, the team has some bugs to file and will do so
16:11:43 <wendyreid> laudrain: We did the same at Hachette, a lot of EPUBs we have for UAT for EPUBCheck and checked
16:11:47 <wendyreid> ... no remarkable issues
16:12:02 <wendyreid> ... we have issues with the fact that EPUBCheck 4.2 is better at checking for ARIA roles
16:12:36 <wendyreid> ... our born accessible EPUBs are affected, our mappings are out of place with EPUBCheck
16:12:41 <wendyreid> ... there is also an issue in ACE
16:13:10 <wendyreid> ... we know that there will be some adjustments in production workflows to create better EPUBs and this is good news
16:13:23 <wendyreid> ... also much more severe on EPUB2, it will help people move to EPUB3
16:13:31 <wendyreid> Topic: EPUBCheck Fundraising
16:13:43 <wendyreid> laudrain: Fundraising is stable, but no new donations
16:13:54 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbg
16:14:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Sorry I'm late
16:14:03 <wendyreid> ... we have enough capital to finance the release, we have time to fundraise before the next milestone at the end of the year
16:14:18 <laudrain> q?
16:14:18 <wendyreid> ... the next step is to clean up the documentation, and some refactoring
16:14:29 <wendyreid> ... any questions?
16:14:37 <wendyreid> Topic: Avneesh is running for the AB
16:14:45 <wendyreid> laudrain: Avneesh is running for the AB
16:14:52 <wendyreid> ... it is important to support him
16:15:00 <wendyreid> ... tell your AC reps
16:15:14 <Avneesh> q+
16:15:20 <wendyreid> ... he has been making great efforts in W3C for years, and we need to support him
16:15:28 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:15:34 <wendyreid> Avneesh: I think I should put forward my points
16:15:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> * Bill_Kasdorf oops! (Did I do _this_ correctly?)
16:15:39 <wendyreid> ... all of you know me
16:15:57 <wendyreid> ... Accessibility is a major priority, and Tzviya convinced me to run
16:16:14 <wendyreid> ... the DAISY board has encouraged me to promote a11y in publishing
16:16:30 <wendyreid> ... I am not vocal, I am a silent strategist, but I worry that the W3C doesn't know me well
16:16:44 <wendyreid> ... we need some ambassadors within the W3C to help with advocacy
16:17:06 <wendyreid> ... spread the word, and emphasise me as priority 1
16:17:13 <wendyreid> laudrain: When you say something, it's important and to the point
16:17:16 <laudrain> +1 to Avneesh
16:17:23 <ivan> +1 too:-)
16:17:28 <wendyreid> +10000 to Avneesh :)
16:17:33 <wendyreid> Topic: Reports
16:17:34 <wolfgang> +1 to Avneesh :)
16:17:41 <ivan> Topic: ISO/A11y work
16:17:53 <wendyreid> laudrain: EPUB Accessibility 1.0 work prior to the merger
16:18:01 <wendyreid> ... published in Jan 2017
16:18:16 <wendyreid> ... and it is the base of an ISO standard that was voted to be worked on last year
16:18:22 <wendyreid> ... work will go on for 3 years
16:18:35 <wendyreid> ... the procedure has been fast-tracked and revised by the experts
16:18:44 <wendyreid> ... meeting in Milan 2 weeks ago to disucss
16:18:52 <wendyreid> ... simple rewording and clarification
16:19:04 <wendyreid> ... there is an issue about accessibility metadata
16:19:05 <wolfgang> s/disucss/discuss/
16:19:21 <wendyreid> ... as outlined in Makoto's report, Italian publishers are questioning the internal metadata
16:19:35 <wendyreid> ... but in the industry we distribute ONIX metadata, metadata external to the file
16:19:50 <wendyreid> ... ONIX hasa different expression of accessibility metadata
16:20:00 <wendyreid> ... calls will begin tomorrow, for us to try to harmonize
16:20:35 <wendyreid> ... we are not planning to change the original document, but accessibility metadata should be included within the EPUB and external via accepted formats (ONIX, Mark??)
16:20:36 <ivan> s/hasa/has a/
16:20:47 <laudrain> q?
16:20:57 <wendyreid> ... we hope to have a better harmonization between metadata formats
16:21:08 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/Mark??/MARC
16:21:10 <dauwhe> q+
16:21:16 <wendyreid> George: Great explanation, the working group will try to harmonize the formats, 1:1 mapping
16:21:22 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:21:42 <Avneesh> q+
16:21:42 <wendyreid> dauwhe: Could someone clarify the relationship of this work to Graham Bell's work on Schema.org work on ONIX
16:21:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:21:54 <wendyreid> laudrain: Graham is in the loop and aware of the issues, and will contribute to the work
16:22:02 <wendyreid> ... it's completely related to what he did
16:22:14 <wendyreid> ... it's important for the industry to have the harmonization
16:22:23 <wendyreid> ... we often send metadata before the EPUB
16:22:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:22:38 <wendyreid> ... we think the metadata should be complete even if the file is not
16:22:40 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:22:55 <wendyreid> Avneesh: There's some missing pieces in ONIX from EPUB that we want to make sure are complete
16:23:25 <laudrain> q+
16:23:41 <wendyreid> ... the other thing is the fasttrack, we want to do this without a major disturbance, we would put any changes into a EPUB Accessibility 1.1 instead of stopping the standardization of 1.0
16:23:55 <wendyreid> ... we want to get to the end goal as soon as possible
16:23:56 <ivan> q+
16:24:04 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:24:27 <wendyreid> laudrain: I agree; we have the possibility to have the ISO standard very soon, and it's important for the european accessibility act
16:24:28 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:24:40 <wendyreid> ivan: Would this also change the terms in Schema.org or are they fixed?
16:24:49 <wolfgang> s/european/European/
16:24:57 <wendyreid> laudrain: From my perspective, we will do all we can to preserve the accessibility metadata in Schema
16:25:05 <wendyreid> ... this is not the place to change it
16:25:11 <wendyreid> ... it's easier to change the codes in ONIX
16:25:42 <wendyreid> ... my hope is that we won't have to work on 1.1, but it will help prevent delays if needed
16:25:47 <laudrain> q?
16:26:00 <Avneesh> AccessModeSuficient is main piece mssing in ONIX
16:26:08 <wendyreid> ivan: The reason I am asking, if there are changes to schema, it affects Web Publications as well
16:26:14 <wendyreid> laudrain: And the web!
16:26:15 <Avneesh> Changes are expected more on ONIX side
16:26:42 <wendyreid> ... today in ONIX it's just code list 196, it is updated every 3 months, so it should be clear and quick
16:26:44 <laudrain> q?
16:27:06 <wendyreid> Topic: EPUB 3.2 and EPUBCheck 4.2 announcement
16:27:53 <wendyreid> laudrain: The PBG and Steering Committee have looked at a google doc with steps for a communication schedule
16:28:14 <wendyreid> ... we announced this at the Asia call, and it was discussed at the CG call on Thursday
16:28:33 <wendyreid> ... there have been some small changes in the expression of the spec due to the testing in EPUBCheck
16:29:01 <wendyreid> ... the plan is that the CG will vote to adopt the final report ASAP, no date exactly, but the hope is that this will be done before the 23rd of April
16:29:23 <ivan> Communication plan -> https://tinyurl.com/yxlxrkzr
16:29:32 <wendyreid> ... at the 23rd of April BG call, we will have a vote with the members to approve EPUB 3.2 and a week-long consensus vote
16:29:47 <wendyreid> ... at the same call we will announced the final release of EPUBCheck 4.2
16:29:53 <wendyreid> ... as long as there are no issues
16:30:01 <wendyreid> ... then we will have a worldwide release of the news
16:30:08 <wendyreid> ... next week's Asia call will be cancelled
16:30:22 <wolfgang> s/announced/announce/
16:30:55 <wendyreid> ... the final part is paying DAISY for the milestone, which will be the end of April
16:31:14 <wendyreid> ... two calls will be cancelled, next Asia call cancelled for Golden Week
16:31:32 <laudrain> q?
16:31:35 <wendyreid> ... May 7 is the PWG F2F in Boston, no call that day either
16:32:29 <wendyreid> laudrain: We didn't want to decide anything in the CG without you
16:32:35 <wendyreid> dauwhe: It will be on the agenda for this week
16:33:07 <ivan> q+
16:33:20 <wendyreid> laudrain: We had the management call with DAISY last week, April 1, we spoke of the plan, and we'll have another F2F in Boston to see if there are issues
16:33:21 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:33:49 <wendyreid> ivan: One more thing, we are prepared to accept testimonials on EPUB 3.2 or EPUBCheck, send them to me or Karen
16:34:05 <wendyreid> ... I have to change the system to accept the testimonials for 3.2
16:34:23 <wendyreid> ... the old testimonials from the merger will be replaced
16:34:42 <wendyreid> laudrain: Thanks Ivan, this has been mentioned, and I'll add it in the spreadsheet
16:34:58 <laudrain> q?
16:35:51 <wendyreid> laudrain: We'll need to discuss this on the 23rd as well
16:36:08 <wendyreid> ... looking at the future topics for the BG spreadsheet
16:37:17 <wendyreid> Liisa: I am looking at the spreadsheet, I see the topic on bringing more of publsihing to the web
16:37:32 <wendyreid> ... things like pagination, font sizes, backgrounds, collections, control of collections
16:37:40 <ivan> Future discussions topics -> https://tinyurl.com/y3o672qd
16:37:49 <wolfgang> s/publsihing/publishing/
16:37:56 <ivan> q+
16:38:02 <wendyreid> ... separate people's expectations of publications on the web, how can we start that conversation on the group
16:38:09 <wendyreid> ... I have a pagination question, if we have a moment
16:38:24 <wendyreid> q+
16:38:36 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:39:12 <wendyreid> ivan: There is a last entry, I had a discussion with Richard, from the DPIG, internationalization
16:39:28 <wendyreid> ... there's a request to look at these issues and look at the feedback from the interest group
16:39:39 <wendyreid> ... the natural home is in the business group
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16:39:52 <liisamk> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vz2oAGAnTI8Qnyb1kV3oPu19utfzRtKMAlUcki1_1XM/edit
16:39:54 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:40:05 <ivan> q+
16:40:06 <liisamk> this is the pagination issue I want to talk about
16:40:31 <laudrain> q+
16:40:33 <wolfgang> wendyreid: some of these topics are good topics for CG
16:41:00 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:41:23 <laudrain> q?
16:41:31 <wendyreid> ivan: This is more a headsup, ??? and I had a discussion last week, looking at archiving of EPUBs, noted some problems on some data required for both EPUB and WPUB, they are thinking about getting together
16:41:47 <liisamk> q+
16:41:50 <wendyreid> ... maybe even to show upat the F2F, some of these issues should show up with the BG
16:41:55 <ivan> s/???/Karen/
16:42:04 <wolfgang> s/upat/up at/
16:42:31 <wendyreid> laudrain: The question of triage is necessary here, then we can push things to the PCG, etc.
16:42:49 <wendyreid> ... I don't know when we will do this triage but the next step is to work on this spreadsheet and work on some items
16:43:16 <wendyreid> ... we should also look at priorities
16:43:30 <wendyreid> ... also I should mention here about internationalization
16:43:49 <wendyreid> ... I did reach out to Richard about issues with unicode phonetics
16:44:01 <wendyreid> ... I received no answer, if you talk to him, please remind him
16:44:07 <wendyreid> ivan: I will ask
16:44:11 <laudrain> q?
16:44:16 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:44:38 <wendyreid> liisamk: Thanks for the headsup Ivan, some of the things UofM library mention is interesting
16:44:45 <wendyreid> ... they're looking at a much longer time frame
16:45:01 <wendyreid> ... we are concerned about longevity, updating, etc
16:45:37 <wendyreid> ... the pagination issue I have is mostly specific and about accessibility
16:45:40 <wendyreid> ... I need advice
16:45:50 <wendyreid> ... what is the expectation here?
16:45:55 <dauwhe> q+
16:46:53 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:46:57 <ivan> ack liisamk
16:46:59 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:47:02 <wendyreid> dauwhe: My naive response is that the pagelist is just a link to some particular part of the document
16:47:19 <wendyreid> ... we put empty <spans> because we're anchoring to the middle of the paragraph
16:47:29 <wendyreid> liisamk: But the image in the middle of page 14
16:47:49 <laudrain> q+
16:48:02 <wendyreid> dauwhe: We are creating signposts, "here is page 14" "here is page 15", a page doesn't necessarily include all of the document objects
16:48:27 <George> q+
16:48:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:48:58 <wendyreid> laudrain: We'd place the markers in their page positions (??? I think I got this?)
16:49:08 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:49:21 <laudrain> s/(??? I think I got this?)//
16:49:35 <laudrain> ack George
16:52:19 <laudrain> ok Wendy
16:52:27 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:55:10 <laudrain> q?
16:55:26 <wendyreid> laudrain: We are almost at the hour
16:55:32 <wendyreid> ... we have some work to do on the spreadsheets
16:55:39 <wendyreid> ... new items to discuss
16:55:47 <wendyreid> ... first work would be categorize and prioritize
16:56:01 <laudrain> q?
16:56:04 <wendyreid> ... we should work on that soon, but we do have other things to do
16:56:09 <wendyreid> ... AOB?
16:56:47 <wendyreid> ... have a great day everyone!
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19:21:14 <dauwhe> RRSAgent: draft minutes
19:21:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/09-pbg-minutes.html dauwhe
19:21:19 <dauwhe> RRSAgent: make logs public
19:21:34 <dauwhe> RRSAgent: make logs public
19:21:45 <dauwhe> RRSAgent: bye
19:21:45 <RRSAgent> I see no action items